When I retired, I believed that I was leaving behind any worries about work culture. Throughout my career, I experienced both positive and toxic work environments, almost always in relationship to the leader of the group. Yes, as stated in the literature, I lived a few of the “bad leaders create toxic work culture” situations.
Most times I was able to overcome the toxic culture by finding a silver lining. There was the misogynist leader from whom I learned great project management skills. Then, the discounting leader who made me work even harder to grow my skills (successfully). Luckily, I had many more good leaders over my career – empowering me, helping me grow my skills, recognizing my contributions.
But I’ve come to realize that toxic work cultures can exist even in not-for-pay volunteer work environments. Recent events in one organization I am in made me Google, “Should I quit?” So this week’s blog post captures some of that rabbit-hole exploration.
There were great questions to ask myself. Although most on-line discussion is about leaving paid work, thinking about them in a not-for-pay position is certainly helpful:
- Does the position encourage you to achieve things or to learn new things?
- Do you dread engaging with the leader/ going to meetings?
- Do you feel discounted? Insulted? Disrespected?
- Are your skills under-utilized?
- Is your work mistrusted?
- Do you feel comfortable voicing an option? Taking initiative?
- Are you picking up the bad habits of a toxic environment?
Any position you hold should encourage you to approach the “work” with positive anticipation, not avoidance and dread! Engagement with the leadership should not result in a churning stomach and negative spiral (for days). And when the position is a volunteer position, dread and disrespect should not be the first two words to think of!
Then there were various elements of toxic and positive work cultures that I found insightful, even for a volunteer position:
| Toxic Culture | Positive Culture |
| Micro-managing leader Poor communication (& belittling if asked for clarification) Culture of cliques and favoritism (an old guard, unwilling to let go) Gossipy behavior; Snitching Exclusion (lack of inclusion) | Leader encourages individuals to perform at highest ability and with autonomy Promotes collaboration Open, clear, and frequent communication Appreciating initiative On-boarding process for inclusion of new people |
It’s scary how well the “toxic” elements describe my current situation with this one group! And yet, in another group I’m in, most of the “positive” elements ring true.
There were some insights if I decide to “find the silver lining” and not quit this position:
- Stop confrontation on anything; don’t voice any opinions. (Not an easy task!)
- Stop any gossipy conversation with, “I have nothing to say.”
Quitting anything is very hard for me. I’ve realized it’s part of my conditioning/beliefs – if you make a commitment, you keep it. In my mind, quitting is failing and I have a huge fear of failure. Even recognizing that this is a toxic work culture and it’s a big part of my negative spiraling, I am finding it very hard to say, “I quit”!
So, I went down another rabbit hole to understand Quitting versus Failing.
Perseverance (grit) is not only an American cultural characteristic, a strength to develop for being happier per positive psychology research, and a rallying cry of the feminist movement (Nevertheless, she persisted), it is also a personal strength.
Yes, I feel guilty for not finishing reading a book (a very rare occasion!). Yes, I feel guilty for dropping a toxic relationship. Yes, I struggle with dropping bucket list travel ideas even though I’ve come to the conclusion travel stresses me out. It was fascinating to read that if you say, “I keep thinking it will get better”, it probably won’t!
I like the notion of thinking of quitting rather as a switch of focus. If you’ve put time and energy into an endeavor and it is clear that it will not succeed, is it rational to put more time and energy into it? Or is it more rational to switch focus and put your time and energy into something else? Something that also matches the reasons (goals) you had for the endeavor.
The idea that quitting is about creating a sense of mental freedom and peace of mind (versus continual negative spirals) was also helpful. It is actually taking control versus continue to react to the situation.
My reading encouraged me to not do anything impulsively or out of frustration. To ask myself some questions to make an informed decision:
- Why did you start this endeavor (join the organization/become an officer)?
- Is the situation/activity bringing value into your life? Is it delivering on the expected outcomes you had for starting it?
- What are the pros for staying in the role/activity? What might the silver lining be?
- Is the emotional toil taking its toll on your overall health?
Sometimes the best option is to walk away and provide the mental space to do something else, to use my skills somewhere else. So the question remains, to quit or not to quit? But I feel it’s less about failing. And if I decide to quit, I need to plan my exit. I don’t want to burn bridges.
Are you experiencing a toxic work culture, even in retirement?
What has helped you overcome the perception of quitting being failure?
Picture Credit – This week’s pink sky sunset. Looking at my view daily is one of the things that helps reduce my negative spiraling!
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retirementtransition 
Hi Pat.
I meant to respond to this post earlier. An author I know once wrote that she burns bridges because she doesn’t want to go back over them again. That resonated with me. Some relationships, we are simply done with; no need to carry them forward. It is ok to sign off and let go, to retire again and again and again.
Blessings!
John
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Moving away from the “quit” word is what I’ve done in terms of leaving or letting go of something in my unpaid/retirement years. I am a conscientious person who, now, as a much older woman, decides who & what gets my time & energy. And that is my view. Volunteering is good to a point but when it feels like work, I am outta there! I’ve done this recently after 5 years doing something I liked & needed to help me too but over time I was not enjoying it. Life! We get one chance! Making it what I want now is both liberating & joyful. Go well Pat!
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Densye, I wonder if it can be as simple as that… “am I enjoying it?” Because you are so right in that life gives you one chance. Why am I staying in something that is not bringing me joy? A number of folks have asked, “Is there something I need to learn?” So that is where I’m pondering at the moment… but I love your question as well.
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There is a lot of good content here to consider, Pat…both in your post and in the comments. I do like the idea of including what you are learning in the mix of pros and cons and also looking at quitting one thing as opening up your time and energy for something else (shifting focus). For me, it also helps to remember that there isn’t one “right” choice. Good luck with your decision!
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Christie, the comments – both here and on Facebook – were really helpful in helping me think through why I’m struggling with this decision. Right now, a week after I wrote the post, I still have not quit the position. I’m trying to understand what this is helping me learn!
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Years ago I read the book “When Smart People Fail,” by Carole Hyatt and Linda Gottlieb. It changed my feelings about words like quitting and failure, which are just precursors to learning and change. I found this post interesting. I’ve been drafting an essay about volunteer experiences since 2017. Maybe I’ll pull it together and hit “publish” one day. Haha! Best wishes in making some changes you feel good about.
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Tracey, I think an essay about volunteer experiences would be awesome! I’ve not had a lot of volunteer experience… I worked and didn’t really take time to do much of the volunteer stuff. The closest I came was coaching sports teams… nothing like being on a Board of Directors nor a Club Committee. And with people who have no project management skills, no strategic thinking skills, and even no communication skills! I was spoiled in my career – working with talented people.
Many folks have mentioned, what am I learning in the situation. That is something I am definitely going to think about.
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I also worked, but never had any kids and was single half of my adult life so had time to dabble in volunteerism before retirement. One of my key take aways was that large, well established organizations actually had excellent PM, strategic thinking and communication skills – all required for them to be effective. I’m talking about Iron Man, YMCA and other national organizations that put on multiple events each year. Those have been very rewarding experiences. I”ll keep working on that essay!
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Interesting perspective. Both groups I’m in are small ones. Perhaps I need to explore a bigger organization…. but I worry that it will actually feel like work!
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Pat, admittedly, I have gotten myself into a few toxic situations because I ignored the warning signs, or simply refused to thoroughly examine my motivation before jumping in. I don’t like to quit, and I haven’t always done it gracefully. But, when I see no reason to believe that the situation or people involved will change, I’m out. Of course, I will pick things apart (possibly justifying, but mostly looking for answers) until I learn something to take forward.
Interesting post. I hope you resolved your situation and feel good about your decision. Graceful exits aren’t always possible, but I do respect that you would want to leave on good terms.
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Suzanne, A number of people have commented about “what am I learning” in the situation. This is one of the reasons I love blogging…. you-all push my thinking. Because I am not sure what I’ve learned – it is something I will be thinking on. Thank you.
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I’m probably an outlier here, but I’ve never thought of quitting as being failure. It’s just a step forward, taken in an unplanned way. Learn, then move on.
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Ally, Yes, I do think you might be an outlier! But still, you made me think… what have I learned from the situation? Good thing to ponder a bit.
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If you keep knocking at a door that is never answered it’s prudent to move on. That’s not quitting, IMHO. I just finished reading Leanne’s latest Cresting the Hill blog on selective ignorance. Food for thought here.
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I read Leanne’s post also. Sometimes the synchronicity of blogging topics is amazing!
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What a beautiful view!
Letting go of something that is not giving you some sort of gratification at this stage is healthy not toxic. Not every situation is a good one for you, even if it seems a good one for others. Let it go and move on.
I was part of a charity group that puts on a small gala but they really liked to run it on their own and didn’t need me, so I just told them the truth, that I felt they didn’t really need or want me and so I was leaving the committee. I’m still going to their event and it will be much more enjoyable.
Let it go and don’t take it personally. Getting out of something like that is not quitting it’s knowing when something isn’t working for you and having the courage and strength to move on. And that is a strength not a weakness.
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Love that phrase “I feel like you don’t really need nor want me” and so I am resigning the position. I’ve written it down. Thanks for that.
I’m still not 100% sure, but you’ve definitely given me a great phrase to use!
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Interesting piece.
Toxic environments can happen inside and out of the work place. Quitting may be the only solution at some point. However, I find that toxic environments always teach me something too – I always come out of the experience with some new tool or idea that helps deal with it in future situations.
I guess over the years I’ve developed the slightly cynical view that you can, in the end, never avoid this toxicity – it’s baked into the cake so to speak, but you can learn to cope better with it….
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Someone mentioned to me that maybe this situation is to teach me to have lower expectations. To not give 110%. To not try and solve problems that you see. To have more patience. Of all of those, the only lesson I want to learn is to have more patience.
However, your comment about learning to cope better does give me something to think about. Thanks.
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Thanks Pat!
Funnily enough one of the people that influenced me on this was, of all people, Tony Robbins. In his book “Awaken the Giant” he talks a lot about “state” and “state management”. I thought it was a load of “Tony baloney” – until I actually tried it. 😉
“Toxic environments” like the workplace (but not limited to it), are basically a great rushing torrent of emotions and events, that are like a constant inbound missile attack on state – maintaining state under those conditions is hard, and why many give up in the end and simply avoid those kind of environments (who can blame them). But once you are aware of state and what tends to trigger unresourceful states (as Tony would put it), and how to manage state, it can be life changing. It certainly helped me massively with my work and personal relationships…
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Hi Pat – this is an interesting one for me. I’ve volunteered in numerous different areas over the years and really enjoyed using my skills to help where needed. I’ve been secretary of two churches, our kids’ primary school, and our local progress association – loved it…..until I felt like I was being used and that the person above me was an older man with quite a misogynistic attitude. In the end I pulled out and left (I was replaced by a paid person! but that’s another story). Anyway, if something is draining you then it’s not a failure to step back – it’s actually healthy for your mental and emotional health and frees up headspace for a position that’s a better fit. Their loss x
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Leanne, I’m in another (volunteer) group and every time I take initiative there, they thank me. It’s kinda interesting to have the two situations side by side. And it’s been helpful to hear different people’s perspective – both here and on my FB post. I’m still not 100% sure what I’m going to do! I realized I don’t want to quit the club, just the board of directors position. So now trying to figure out if I can make that happen without fall-out.
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Love the sky photo and the very reflective post about quitting versus failing. It definitely sounds toxic, and you’ve posted about it a couple of times. It would seem to be having a negative impact on your life. Not that I get a vote, but I will say that you don’t really owe the group anything if it’s not giving anything back to you but stress. I also struggle to quit things, but the “change of focus” is such a great way to look at it. Good luck with the decision.
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Thanks Bernie. It’s been helpful to hear different people’s POV and/or their articulation. Even with thinking it as a “change of focus” and knowing it’s giving me stress, I’m struggling to give it up. I’m really trying to get down to the why!
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